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Need consultant to change urbanization plan

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SimonG View Drop Down
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  Quote SimonG Quote  Post ReplyReply #1 Topic: Need consultant to change urbanization plan
    Posted: 30-Jan-2013 at 23:09
Hello to all. I am new to your forum and I would like to ask you a question.

My wife and I own a plot of land in Macedonia that is currently zoned as agricultural. I am in need of a company / consultant that will help us change the zoning to construction to build a holiday home in the future.

If you know somebody, I would be happy to hear.

Cheers.
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FoSsiL View Drop Down
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  Quote FoSsiL Quote  Post ReplyReply #2 Posted: 30-Jan-2013 at 23:42

I am on it...

And I think there are some other forum member that could help you more than me... so, no worries

Though... I already found something... "scrolling" some laws... 

Just to compose it right... 

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  Quote gjoko Quote  Post ReplyReply #3 Posted: 30-Jan-2013 at 23:42
in which the city is located your land?you have to find a company in the town where you are going to build
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  Quote FoSsiL Quote  Post ReplyReply #4 Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 02:09

So... here is something... but sorry for my bad English about these things...

The Law for Agricultural Land explains it:

V. Conversion of agricultural land

Possibilities of/for conversion

Article 48

1)The conversion of agricultural land to construction land can be permanent or temporary.

2)Permanent and temporary conversion of agricultural land classified in I and II bonitena (I don't know what this means) class for non-agricultural use/means can not be done, except in cases provided in the following articles: 49, 50 and 51 of this Law.

Which doesn't concern you, cause, they only apply for the municipalities in Macedonia... and their work... 

=====================================

So... IF your land is categorized as class I or class II agricultural land... it cannot be converted into construction land, except if the local government plans to urbanize the whole area, or if the land is going to be used for objects of public interest (highways, railways...) or for agricultural object... that's why I said it doesn't concern u...

But... If your land is categorized as class III, class IV or lower, down to class VIII... I think there won't be any problems converting it into construction land... However... you might have some difficulties in the administrative procedure, doing it alone... so I suggest it would be the best for you to hire a lawyer... or a consulting company as u mentioned... but I doubt you will find any here in Macedonia... I am not sure...

I've been looking for such a company, searching the net... nothing... I was unsuccessful finding any... 




Edited by FoSsiL - 31-Jan-2013 at 02:30
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  Quote FoSsiL Quote  Post ReplyReply #5 Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 02:19

Oh... and it would be great if you could post the exact location of your plot of land, and the name of the municipality... so we could search for and check the urban plan for that area, if existing.... and share it with you... 

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  Quote SimonG Quote  Post ReplyReply #6 Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 09:29
Thank you for your replies (and work already done). Your English is just as good as mine and I am very happy that you are practicing it in my case.

The municipality our plots (there are three and they are all next to each other) are in is Ohrid in the village of Elshani.

If I am not mistaken all three plots have a class IV agricultural classification. This I derived from the documents of the notary.

You should know that we already spoke with a lawyer in Ohrid, who described a very expensive and long way to change the urbanization plan of a whole area. Maybe something like you described when classification I or II would be the case.

If the procedure could be easier than what he described, that would be very positive. Your assessment that we would need professional help is correct. Our knowledge of Macedonian is just not good enough to understand legal or technical documents / terms.

If you need any more info, please let me know.

Thank you for your next reply.
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  Quote FoSsiL Quote  Post ReplyReply #7 Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 15:56

When exactly did you have that talk with that lawyer?

Cause that classification that includes and defines classes III and IV as land that cannot be converted into construction land exists in the old Law for Agricultural Land, which was put  in use sometime in 2007, but then updated in February 2011. The update actually allowed the conversion of class III and class IV agricultural land into construction land. And I think it wasn't changed since then, at least not in the sections concerning you... I'll check anyways... 

Here is a quote of the Law of Amendment of the Law for Agricultural Land
Official Gazette of Republic of Macedonia no. 18, Date: 14.02.2011

Article 48 is amended as follows:
"Conversion of agricultural land in the construction may be permanent and temporary.
Permanent and temporary conversion of agricultural land cadastral class I and II for non-agricultural purposes can not be done except in the cases provided for in Articles 49, 50 and 51 of this Law.

And this is the old Article 48

Article 48
1) Diversion of agricultural land may be permanent and temporary.
2) Permanent and temporary conversion of agricultural land of I, II, III and IV bonitena (cadastral) class for non-agricultural purposes can not be performed, except in cases
provided for in Articles 49, 50 and 51 of this Law.

Articles 49, 50 and 51 actually concern the municipalities in Macedonia, as I mentioned before...

So, to conclude... According to the update of this Law introduced on 14.02.2011, only cadastral classes I and II of agricultural land cannot be converted into construction land. In the same time, conversion of cadastral classes III and IV of agricultural land into construction land, becomes allowed. 

Also I found some really interesting... 

Abolition of the fee for the conversion of agricultural land into construction land...

Here is a quote of an official statement of the Ministry of Agriculture... You can also read about the conversion of III and IV class agricultural land.... sorry for repeating this all over again, making it kinda messy and confusable...

8. Clarification of the procedure for conversion of agricultural land into construction land:

In this segment greater liberalization will be performed. Namely, if it was not possible to perform a conversion of agricultural land into construction of I, II, III and IV class agricultural land except for cases which lay down the law (public interest, no other class of land in the municipality), the proposed change is predicted to be able to perform a conversion of class III and IV land. This allows greater flexibility and increases the potential sites for the construction of buildings for non-agricultural purposes, in order to achieve greater flexibility and improve the business climate in the country.

9.  Abolition of the regulations/provisions for payment of compensation (the fees) in case of transformation of agricultural land into construction land:

So far, the Law envisaged, for the transformation of agricultural land into construction land, a fee equal to the estimated land price increased threefold. It repulsed investors. Namely, they had to devote significant resources for the transformation. The Act, now, completely abolish this fee. This provision is expected to significantly improve the business climate in the country.

I hope I've done a great job here





Edited by FoSsiL - 31-Jan-2013 at 16:05
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  Quote SimonG Quote  Post ReplyReply #8 Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 16:31
You certainly are doing a great job here. You already offered me more information than that I could find on the internet / from lawyer / community hall of Ohrid. Thank you so much.

If your information is correct, than changing to construction land 'could' be a not so complicated job. Maybe not even very expensive. The Macedonian government seems to be doing a lot of things to attract investors.

That leaves the problem of: how to get this train moving. I talked to a Macedonian representative (Invest in Macedonia) that advised me to contact the community of Ohrid. I tried that, but that did not go very well. They weren't able to put me through to the right person or the right person did not speak English.

I am going to try to get somebody local to stop by there, maybe ask some construction companies how they file their applications.

If anybody has ideas, I would like to hear them.

Cheers.
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  Quote FoSsiL Quote  Post ReplyReply #9 Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 16:50

It must be correct... I was taking excerpts from the Law itself and the website of the Ministry of Agriculture... 

However... despite the great solutions... unfortunately... their implementation is not so great... and that can be a hell of a headache... 

My best advice is to come here in person, and ask for help/guidance/assistance from the Dutch Embassy in Skopje... If you don't grab things in your own hands and don't insist on better service and pressure them for faster procedure... they won't do it... despite the fact that foreign citizens, especially western europeans are being much respected, when it comes to do business...

Another interesting thing regarding what I said above... even though, it may be kinda rude and maybe offending... Anyone that will invest 400 000 euros in Macedonia, if he/she wants, can instantly get a Macedonian citizenship... a little bit crazy idea Nuts... but who knows... maybe someone would become interested in it... 

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  Quote FoSsiL Quote  Post ReplyReply #10 Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 17:12

Or just call the media... and the officials will come to you... you won't have to go to them LOL

Really... this might actually work...

You'll have the conversion done in less than couple of days

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  Quote daci92 Quote  Post ReplyReply #11 Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 17:44
Haha it is interesting from Fossil ,i'm not really into this laws that you are asking about.
But what i want to say posting here is welcome and i'm really glad that you want to build your holiday home in Macedonia.
As for the conversion and all that administration things probably you should put some pressure on them trough consulate/embassy or media as FoSsiL said, the regulations are there but when it comes to implementations of regulations our Administration especially local one and that is not from the ruling party in the government can be really pain in the ass ,they will really get on your nerves.
The right person always speaks English it is just a matter if they want to or not.
IF they don't speak English then they will call someone to translate but it is as i said it is if they want or not.
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  Quote gjoko Quote  Post ReplyReply #12 Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 18:00
јас предлагам на чоеков да му предложиме некој со приватен катастар да му ја истера целава работа.кај нас во Кичево има вакви махери што ќе ти средат све,ама за Охрид треба да се праша
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  Quote FoSsiL Quote  Post ReplyReply #13 Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 18:02

Епа ајде

Дај да најдеме некој...

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  Quote +Protagorist Quote  Post ReplyReply #14 Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 20:18


го изнамачивте чоекот со закони,но бар пробавте да му помогнете,ето дури и со just do it рушветџии

~

SG aside your difficulties,your intention for building house in OH and every paperwork after,its best to be left on architects who for sure will resolve all difficulties in your name altogether completed with the arch.project + building permit and in the end closed till property certificate,this is in case that area is urbanized!

- in other case if you want to go by your own then subscribe to https://www.akademika.com.mk/v1/en/login.jsp

- also have in mind that from 2012 there is new Local Regulatory Guillotine that obligates municipalities to respond on every written question in 5 day period after what you have right to ask for assistance from the specific ministry that covers the matter you are interested in... soon as part of this ongoing LRG project there will be also integrated portal with local regulations (page 19)

- eventually if you stumble upon some "heresy" try again at least in other municipality eg. some from SK also see if state cadastre can help you out somehow http://www.katastar.gov.mk/en/Faq.aspx and if you still have obstacles finally write to the current vicepremier at: contact_zpvrm@gs.gov.mk


Edited by +Protagorist - 31-Jan-2013 at 20:20
HaјсилнoтoOpужјe е вo caмитeHac cинaпoвo3pнo co НaдeжВepaЉубoв
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  Quote gjoko Quote  Post ReplyReply #15 Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 21:36
да му шитнам куќа спроти пазарчето(ја добив во наследство-1/2)
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  Quote SimonG Quote  Post ReplyReply #16 Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 21:57
Thanks guys, you have been a great help. Fossil that dug out Macedonian construction law and took away an insecurity I had by stating that there always is a way to convert class 4 agricultural land.

I think Protagorist handed another piece of the puzzle by stating that an architect would be the person to handle the paperwork, next to of course make drawings and calculations. Guess that this means that I really need to make up my mind about the direction that I want my future house to look like.

All other remarks are of course useful too and stored away for future use

The building permit is quite an important item to obtain, as I also seem to need them to hook up to water, electricity and kanalisatsija. This I got from the Ohrid website thanks to Google translator. So my idea of just camping there is not feasible.

I will be in Macedonia in May. I think I will spend my time talking to some architects. You do not happen to know any good ones in the Ohrid region? Any ideas about costs?
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  Quote gjoko Quote  Post ReplyReply #17 Posted: 31-Jan-2013 at 22:11
I hope tomorrow I will get some more informations about this problem(My chief at my company is from Ohrid)
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  Quote SimonG Quote  Post ReplyReply #18 Posted: 01-Feb-2013 at 13:31
Thank you for the update gjoko. I will await your input.
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  Quote SimonG Quote  Post ReplyReply #19 Posted: 15-May-2013 at 18:45
Hi guys,

It has been quiet for some time, but in the very near future we will travel to Ohrid and see if we can make any progress with the paper work.

Priorities will be:

Get an appointment at city hall to get someone to explain procedures / make some connections.

And from there find an architect that can also file paperwork like change of zoning and building permit.

There seems to be a new ruling party. So I hope officials will be more eager.

Now my question for you: Any last minute changes or tips that you have for me?

Thanks and cheers!
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  Quote pbanks Quote  Post ReplyReply #20 Posted: 16-May-2013 at 10:53
Hi Simon,

I have an acquaintance from Ohrid who is an architect and has a family company located in Ohrid, working in that area which can probably cater to your needs.

If you would like to have a meeting with them when in Ohrid, let me know and I can send you their contact details over PM.
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